From dew Fri Jan  4 10:47 MST 1991
Received: by hpfclw.HP.COM; Fri, 4 Jan 91 10:47:54 mst
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 91 10:47:54 mst
From: Dave Willis <dew>
Full-Name: Dave Willis
To: jws@hpfclw
Subject: Willis's PWS equipment
Cc: dew@hpfclw, jwh@hpfclw, sjo@hpsjo
Status: RO


John,

I have finally bit the bullet and actually dismantled my old PWS system.
I have moved the following equipment back into your equipment areas.
Next time I'm over there and you have a minute, I will show where they
are.

When Donna sends me a complete list of the assets in my name, I will
request some asset transfers to match todays reality.


360	ASSET 0089001626
8MB	S/N   2903A03953

9122	ASSET ?
	S/N   2339A00233

ThinkJet ASSET ?
	S/N   2719830580


Thanks,

Dave Willis

From jws Mon Dec 17 13:18 MST 1990
Received: by hpfclw.HP.COM; Mon, 17 Dec 90 13:18:40 mst
From: John Schmidt <jws>
Full-Name: John Schmidt
Subject: Teac floppy drive (fwd)
To: dew@hpfclw, jwh@hpfclw
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 13:18:38 MST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]
Status: RO

Forwarded message:

Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 10:59:24 mst
From: Mike Connor <mlc@hpfcoll>
Full-Name: Mike Connor
Message-Id: <9012171759.AA05340@hpfcoll.HP.COM>
To: jws@hpfclw
Subject: Teac floppy drive

>From clemmey_w@apollo.hp.com Fri Dec 14 14:22 MST 1990
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>From: clemmey_w@apollo.hp.com (William Clemmey)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 90 16:00:05 EST 
Subject: TEAC 3 1/2" Floppy
To: steveb@hpfcml.fc.hp.com, bury@hpfcrn.fc.hp.com, do@hpfcly.fc.hp.com,
        dan@hpfcdjs.fc.hp.com, chrish@hpisla.lvld.hp.com,
        howell@hpfclr.fc.hp.com
Cc: rdg@hpfcla.fc.hp.com, bruce@hpfcls.fc.hp.com, stevebj@hpfcml.fc.hp.com,
        andyb@hpsqf.sqf.hp.com, angelo_l@apollo.hp.com (Louis Angelo),
        menand@apollo.hp.com (Howard Menand),
        reed_a@apollo.hp.com (Allen Reed), asnakes.store:@apollo.hp.com (list)
Status: R




    Greetings All,                                                   December 14, 1990

    For those of you who do not know me, I am Bill Clemmey. I am the engineer at ASY who
    qualified the Teac SCSI 3 1/2" Floppy Drive FD235HS-302. I am aware of all of the
    discussion that has been going on about the two Teac drives: 300 and 302. I originally
    heard about the Rev 300 drive from Andy Batham at the end of September. He was
    quailfying the device for TDL and wanted assistance. We soon dicovered that his drive 
    was not the same as the drive I had qualified. I investigated this with TEAC and found
    that the 300 drive was the European and Japanese sold drive and the 302 drive was the
    American version. The 300 was not available in the US and the 302 not in the other two
    markets at that time. Enough background.

    The major concern at this time is what drive should be used. We all know that 
    the major difference between the two drives is that the 300 uses an autosensor to
    distinguish between 1 and 2 MB disks, the 302 does not. This is what has caused some 
    people to want to use the 300 drive instead of the 302 drive. Upon investigating the
    issue with TEAC Japan, I have come up with the following information and recommendation.

    1) The 300 drive defaults to a 2 MB 256 byte sector upon power up or reset. The drive
       can sense the media and tell if the disk is a one or two MB disk, but it can not
       sense what the actual format of the disk is (bytes/sector).
       From the information shown below I do not believe it is possible for the drive to
       do the auto sense and read 512 or 1024 byte disks. The drive uses a certain medium 
       type, 02H, to select the auto sense mode for the drive. This medium type uses the 
       default 256 bytes/sector formats for 1 and 2 MBs.                                 

    2) The 300 drive supports only two 1 mb formats and two 2 mb formats as medium types.
       The 302 drives supports about twenty different formats as medium types.

    3) The 300 drive is not readily available in the US. We could not have any serious
       quantities for several weeks. Teac America knows nothing about this drive, so 
       the support would be extrememly limited. Although the drives are very similar in
       design, there are component differences. This would require a full requal on
       the device, which is not possible for IF1 release.

    4) Teac is releasing a new version of the FC-1 board in January. We have been aware of
       this since September, when it was thought that the drive was to be released for 
       MCF. The new drive could not be qualified in time for IF1 release either. At that
       time, we decided to go with the 302 drive and qualify the new drive next summer
       for a phase in. The new board will have auto sense capabilities and support all
       of the HP formats. The schedule does not allow for this drive to be qualified.

    5) The 302 drive is compatible with all HP formats with a very simple mode select.
       The 300 requires much more detailed mode select information for implementation of 
       512 and 1024 byte/sector formats. Both drives require mode selects, the 302 being
       less involved. The 300 needs to change page five parameters, the 302 doesn't. The
       300 drive does not support all of the HP floppy formats.

    6) Lets look at the requirements:

       A) Coral/Cobra:Bob Bury, Dan Osecky:The TEAC drive was originally qualified for this
                project. The qualification started in February under the assumption it was
                to be released at MCF. The snakes team wants to support DOS formats, which
                are the 512 byte/sector formats. The 300 drive, from what information I 
                have, can not auto sense these disks to distinguish between 1 and 2 MBs.
                See 1 above. The 300 drive is going to require a mode select to 1 mb, 512
                bytes/sector and then another mode select to 2 mb, 512 b/s. This is the same
                as the 302 drive, except the mode select needs much more description.
                The 302 would work this way. Drive is mode selected at power up for 2 mb,
                512 b/s format. disk inserted. Try this format. If the disk is the default
                then no problem. If it is not, then mode select the drive to 1 Mb, 512 b/s.
                Issue the read and read the disk. If this disk is not read, then they are
                trying to use an unsupported format disk. If we want to support additional
                formats, then there needs to be more work done on the driver. The 300 drive
                would need to be run in the exact same manner, except that the mode select 
                parameters would be much more detailed. Also, the drive does not support
                all of the HP floppy formats.
       
        D) Woody/Bushmaster: These are the new low end products for Strider/Trailways and
                Coral/Cobra respectively. It should be pointed out that the driver for 
                68K machines will be different than that for the snakes machines. But, again
                these systems will use the DOS compatibility 512 b/s format. The drives
                would work the same as on the snakes drives above.
    
        C) SoftPC: Donna Griffith, Rob Gardner: The SoftPc software will run on Snakes, and
                other workstation platforms. It is our PC emulator and requires the 512 b/s
                format that is the known PC format. The requirements match those of the
                Snakes team and schedule is same. Their operation is also the same. The 302
                drive is set up as a 512 b/s, so the auto sense could not be used.
                
        D) MACE: (FC)Dan Swanson, Dave Willis; Rainbow(MSO): Andy Rogers and Chris Helt; 
                Bootrom: Roger Quist. The drive is to be in these WS also. These systems
                use the 256 b/s format and want compatibility with 1024 b/s format. 
                For these systems the 300 is the better choice if you only want to use the
                256 b/s format. The drive defaults to this. But to use the 1024 b/s format
                a detailed mode select is required. The drive again is not capable of using
                the auto sensor for 1024 b/s formats. The drive would need to try them as in
                the 302 drive and mode select the drive accordingly. But, the mode select
                would need to be much more detailed. If the drive was to be used only on 
                these systems, then I would reccommend the 300 drive, but it is not. I think
                that since the 302 drive is usable on this system and is the better choice
                for all other systems, then perhaps the 302 should be used.  
 
                The 302 would work in the following manner: Mode select at power up to the 
                2mb 256 b/s format. Read disk with this format. If fail then mode select
                to 1 mb 256 b/s and retry with success unless the disk is not of this
                format. In which case it would fail with the 300 drive also. For 1024 b/s
                compatibility the drive would then do a mode select to 2 mb 1024, try it
                and then mode select to 1 mb 1024 if needed. This is a total of 3 mode 
                selects at worst case. For the 300 drive, the mode selects for 1024 would
                still need to be done. Thus a total of 2 mode selects is needed worst case.
                Best case for either is no mode selects for 2 mb, 256 format after power up
                sequence. The mode select at power up for the 302  drive does not cause 
                any overhead when reading the disk. The only instance where the 300 drive is
                better is if a 1 mb 256 b/s disk is installed. The 300 would immediately
                sense the 1 mb format and read the disk whereas the 302 would need to do 
                a mode select and then read the disk. I estimate this to be at most 10
                seconds of overhead.

    7) Overall: The drive is going to be used with one primary format on each system; either
                256 b/s or 512 b/s. The 300 drive is default for the 256 b/s. Great, but
                the drive is much more limited for full HP format compatibility. Both drives
                need to be mode selected for use with any format that is not 256 b/s.
               
    OK....I think I have rambled on enough for now. I am sending this to everyone who I
    believe has an interest. Please forward it to anyone not on the list. Since, the
    spec on the 300 drive is very limited, I had some questions answered by Japan directly
    about our concerns about the drive. Below are the questions and exact answers.
    Any and all discussion is welcome and anticipated. Thank you all for your time and
    I only hope this may move us all closer to resolution of the issue. 

    Bill Clemmey
    ASY
    email: clemmey_w@apollo.hp.com
    telnet 256-2648
    
    P.S. Happy Holidays to All!!!!


****************************************************************************************

    Teac                                                              December 7, 1990
        
    John Hamilton,                                  

    I have a couple of questions regarding the FD235-HS rev. 300 drive.
    The drive appears to be capable of reading two 1 MB formats and two 2 mb formats.


    1) What are the exact formats that the drive can read. I know the default is
    set to 2 MB, 32 sectors/track, and 256 bytes/block. I need similar information
    for the following assigned formats as listed on page 45 of SCSI spec FC-1-00 rev B.
    Also the total formatted capacity of each.  

                                  sectors/track   bytes/block    capacity   #tracks

    80H = 3.5", 135 tpi, 1.0 MB:      16             256          655.36       80

    84H = 3.5", 135 tpi, 1.6 MB:      26             256         1064.96       80

    88H = 3.5", 135 tpi, 2.0 MB:      32             256         1310.72       80

    8CH = 3.5", 135 tpi, 4.0 MB:

    1EH = 3.5", 135 tpi, 1.0 MB:      16             256         655.36        80
                                                                     

    2) I need to know if the drive can read the following formats:

    1 MB, 256 bytes/block, 16 sectors/track, capacity of 630,784 bytes (630K)
    1 MB, 512 bytes/block,  9 sectors/track, capacity of 709,632 bytes (710K)
    1 MB, 512 bytes/block,  9 sectors/track, capacity of 737,280 bytes (720K)
    1 MB, 1024 bytes/block, 5 sectors/track, capacity of 788,480 bytes (788K)

    2 MB, 256 bytes/block, 32 sectors/track, capacity of 1,261,568 bytes (1.26M)
    2 MB, 512 bytes/block, 18 sectors/track, capacity of 1,419,264 bytes (1.42M)
    2 MB, 512 bytes/block, 18 sectors/track, capacity of 1,474,560 bytes (1.44M)
    2 MB, 1024 bytes/block, 10 sectors/track, capacity of 1,576,960 bytes (1.58M) 

    TEAC REPLY VERBATIM: ALL CAN BE READ. HOWEVER, FOR 512 BYTES/SECTOR AND 1024 
                         BYTES/SECTOR MODE SETTING BY MODE SELECT COMMAND IS REQUIRED
                         BEFORE R/W OPERATION.

    3) Is this drive capable of reading the media and returning the format of the disk
    installed to the host?                    

    TEAC REPLY VERBATIM: NO (BC note: neither does the rev 302 drive.)

    4) Is this drive going to continue to be offered after the new drive is released 
    early next year?

    TEAC REPLY VERBATIM: YES (BC note: we will qualify the new FC00-1 board next summer,
                              the board will report format of installed disk to host)

    5) Explain the use of the medium type 02H in mode select command.                

    TEAC REPLY VERBATIM: BY SETTING STRAPS AS FOLLOWS: FC-1: H,F,LEV,STL,HDS,PAR AND 
                         FDD: DSO,OP,HHO AND ISSUEING MODE SELECT COMMAND W/MEDIUM
                         TYPE 02 FC-1 IS SET TO EITHER 88H (as above) FOR 2MB OPERATION
                         OR 80H (as above) FOR 1 MB OPERATION. MEDIA IS DETERMINED BY 
                         MODE SENSE COMMAND. (BC note: format of the drive is returned
                         from mode sense data, not the format of the installed disk.)
                         

    6) What are the exact physical differences between the rev 300 drive and the 
    rev. 302 drive?                                                                  

    TEAC REPLY VERBATIM:    BEZEL   PCBA FC-1 P/N    ROM VER.    SET STRAPS
            FD235HS-300     BLK     15532138-02      00          H,F,LEV,STL,PAR,ID0-2
            FD235HS-302     AT      15532138-04      01          H,F,PAR, ID0-2       
    QUALIFIED DRIVE IS
            FD235HS-302   no bezel  15532138-04K     01-G        
  


*****************************************************************************************
    Regards,
    Bill Clemmey
    HP/Apollo



